Your approach sounds fine.

For this question, I think it is interesting, and helpful, to note that stealing involves two parts: (1) the act, and (2) the intention.

In Australia, theft is broadly defined as “taking with the intention to permanently deprive”. So, if you take a pen home from work at night, and have an intention to bring it back to work the next day, then this is not stealing.

I didn’t find this question all that difficult personally. I answered taking into consideration exactly what you stated

[quote]If you say “no”, you are almost certainly lying.[/quote]

So what is this question really testing for? Integrity. The only possible answer is YES, though the hard part is why YES.

[u]My Answer:[/u]
Yes, though never as a conscious decision and only the occasional pen here and there.

If i wanted to go further, I’d explain scenarios where if you’ve had a busy day and you end up walking out of the workplace with the pen still sitting in your pocket.

I wouldn’t go so far as to state that I believe one missing pen is an immaterial fact but if I miss out on a job due to taking one pen home subconsciously, I’d rather be asking myself “Do I really want to work here?”

Your thoughts?

Jason

This is an interesting one.

If you say “no”, you are almost certainly lying.

If you say “yes”, then you are admitting to stealing property from work, which shows that you lack the social awareness required to know that “stealing” and “admitting to stealing” are both actions which demonstrate anti-social behaviour.

How would you answer this one?

Thought this may be prevalent for the certain few that are practicing for interviews.

I personally used it as a mental exercise and answered all the questions as if I was in an interview (minus the nerves).

These are the few that I personally pray I won’t have to tackle at my next interview. The below aren’t necessarily sorted in order of mental anguish.

1)Sing a few lines of your favorite song. (Job: Trainee Network Engineer at HCL Comnet Systems and Services Limited)
2)Tell me a joke. (Job: Investment Banker at JPMorgan Chase)
3)Why are manholes round? (Job: Supply Chain at Schlumberger)

The 3rd question regarding a “manhole”. I know that this question was also asked to an graduate analyst for Macquarie Group a few years back during interviews. Other questions proposed during that time were guesstimate questions i.e. how many doors are there in the American Express building across the road.

I can come up with a decent answer for the “manhole” but I haven’t been able to come up with an outstanding answer. I refuse to google this up and research it.

Interested to see what other questions people find daunting.

[quote]I’ve always enjoyed analytics coupled with a team environment working towards a sort of greater goal.[/quote]
[quote]Having done some broad reading it seems that I would have little chance with McKinsey because they seem to place an emphasis on leadership [/quote]

Purely based on your above comment and sincerely not trying to make it harder for you to make a decision, I thought I’d make a semi-controversial statement. Management consulting might not be the only option?!

Have you had a look at business analytics or project management?

[b]The difference?[/b] (I’m waiting for someone to correct me *hints at Tom)

Views will differ on this but from my personal experience BA’s and Project Managers will primarily be in-house and technical focused. Management consultants on the other hand are outsourced and tend to be more strategy focused (also dependant on the firm you are employed with).

This might be something worthwhile revisiting if you haven’t concreted a decision yet

Jason

I will definitely let you know how the interviews are going. So far it has been very much as expected – case interviews and guesstimates, and the usual “why consulting?”

Salary data is kept confidential, and so it is very hard to say for sure what you should expect.

Based on the opinions of a small sample of consultants that I canvassed, the salary range is most likely $150K – $250K.

Hopefully this gives you something to go on. However, consider this an opinion based on limited research, so you should ask other contacts you have if they can give you their opinions.

Let us know if you manage to get a more definitive guide on salaries.

And, please let us know how the interviews go.

Cheers,
Tom

Thanks for a very informative website! I’m not sure if I’ve missed it but I haven’t seen any salary data on the site.

I’m currently interviewing with top tier firms in Sydney – Manager level at Bain, Project Leader at BCG and Associate Principal at McK. It would be great to have a ballpark indication of the base salary and bonus at these levels so if I get an offer I can negotiate effectively and avoid being lowballed

To read the article: [url=http://blogs.hbr.org/hbsfaculty/2012/02/talent-passion-and-the-creativ.html]click here[/url].

Many thanks for the reply.

I will take your suggestion and try my luck after I’ve read up on the literature of management consultancy (many thanks for the list of recommended readings on the Bookshelf).

I’ll let you know my progress as things chug along.

Thanks again!

That makes sense and doesn’t sound crazy at all. And I think that having less than 2 years of experience in a law firm is a good time to make escape plans. Otherwise, you may get sucked into the law firm vortex.

I understand what you mean when you say “stuff businessmen hand their lawyers to close the deal”. Corporate transactions seem to begin with the strategy work and finish with the lawyers (hello, please document this deal as soon as possible).

If your objective is to work for a strategy consulting firm then what are the options?

1. Commerce/law is an attractive double degree. Do you have good marks? Top strategy firms may be willing to interview you without further experience.
2. Have you applied anywhere already? Generally speaking, recruitment for Business Analyst positions in Australia are in Feb-March for positions starting in the following year (ie. you interview for a position in March 2012 for a position in March 2013) – though once they want you, they are often flexible on the start date.

Thanks for the really prompt reply.

I think at the end of the day, I personally found a career in law too restrictive. The law that I was involved with was primarily focused on due diligence and contract formulation. So stuff that businessmen hand their lawyers to “close the deal” so to speak. I wanted to get more involved in the business process: strategy formulation, adding value, the economics of expansion, etc. The more dynamic things that lawyers do not normally get involved in. It’s one of those things that I just woke up one morning to, and knew I had to change my direction.

I’m at the stage now where I’m looking into organisations that I’d be interested to work in. Five years from now, I’d be 30 – I aim to be in a management consultancy position by then. I’d be working in a team, discussing growth possibilities, proposing a solution for corporate challenges, reporting on inefficiencies and suggesting ways to increase the bottom line. I’m not sure yet what it takes to obtain a leadership type position, but this will definitely be in the books.

It does sound a bit crazy that I’m abandoning my legal career to pursue a management consulting one, but I’ve delved on this question many nights and can come to no other conclusion. This is what I want.

Let me know what you think.

Max

Welcome to the Consulting Forum!

You have a Commerce/Law degree with experience working for a law firm in Sydney. This is a good grounding because it likely opens up lots of options. Although, it also means you need to decide what to do next.

The allure of consulting is understandable. However, before discussing “what” you should do, would it be okay if you tell us a little bit about “why” consulting?

Where do you see yourself heading over the next 5 or so years? How do you see consulting playing into that story?

Reading through this website and what awesome content! Getting a bit overwhelmed with all the information out there, so I was hoping for your insight.

I have a double degree in Law and Commerce from a university in Auckland. Worked for 20 months in a law firm in Sydney before I decided I wanted a change in direction and go for management consultancy. The issue I have now is a lack of experience and credentials. While I did many team-based activities with positive results in university, and helped my father’s friend expanding his export business to South Korea, there is little other.

MBA is one option, but the cost is prohibitive at the moment. I was thinking instead to getting a consultancy type position in a company. Fortunately, I have “a foot in the door” of a large steel manufacturing company in Indonesia. The scope of service I’ll most likely offer the company is: organisational efficiency, adding value, and managing demand and risk exposure.

Questions:
1. Is this a good idea? I wonder if firms will view my time in the steel manufacturing company as adding to my application value;
2. Will this overly restrict my future options – i.e. outside the steel manufacturing industry.

Would love to hear your all your feedbacks on this, good and bad (if bad, a suggestion would be very helpful). This is me plunging for the first time in the industry so any comments and ideas are welcome.

Many thanks,
Max

Good questions.

[b]What things do you consider when weighing up an offer?[/b]

I think all of the factors you listed are relevant. However, you need to determine which factors are important to *you*.

Here are three factors which I think are important:
[list=1][*][b]Branding:[/b] working for a firm with a strong brand will help you open new doors. For example, working at McKinsey would almost certainly help someone get an offer from a top business school.[/*]
[*][b]Training/experience:[/b] the experience and skills you pick up will stand by you later. Are there differences in the training programmes that the firms offer? You can probably get great experience working at any of strategy firms listed here: [url=http://www.tomspencer.com.au/2008/07/27/strategy-consulting-and-business-consulting-firms-list-australia/]list of strategy firms in Australia[/url][/*]
[*][b]People:[/b] the people who interview you will be asking themselves whether you are someone they would like to be stuck at an airport with, and you should be asking yourself the same question about them.[/*][/list]

[b]Should you accept the offer? [/b]

This is a judgement call.

At a minimum, you need to be satisfied that you would be happy to work with the firm.

In making your decision, it is worth remembering two things.

Firstly, offer and acceptance are not sufficient to create a legally binding agreement (you also need consideration and an intention to create a legally binding relationship). If you haven’t signed anything, then it may be difficult to prove that there was an intention to create a legally binding relationship. If there is no legal agreement then you can walk away at any time. This is likely to ruffle a few feathers and possibly burn bridges, but it’s your career.

Secondly, even if it would result in a legal agreement being put in place, you may want to consider accepting the offer and retracting it later if you get a better offer. Again, this is likely to ruffle a few feathers and possibly burn bridges. However, it is unlikely to lead to anything more serious for three reasons. Firstly, a consulting firm that tried to enforce an employment contract through the courts would most likely receive negative news coverage. Since reputation is everything, they would not want to risk this. Secondly, if you are applying for a graduate role there will be lots of other people who want that job. It would be easy for a consulting firm to find a replacement. Thirdly, consulting is a professional services business which requires energy and dedication. If you don’t want to work for a firm, then they are unlikely to want you there either.

SO, over these couple of days I have been thinking long and hard about whether to accept the offer or not. The things I have considered include:
Salary; Career progression; Training; Company culture + reputation; and confidence in my applications to other firms.

What additional things do you normally consider when weighing up an offer?

Thank you for ALL the questions.

My view is that you do need to prepare for case interivews. I have three reasons for this view:
1. [b]Prepare you for a consulting career:[/b] case interviews are preparation for the real life consulting. If you get good at the case interview (and enjoy it) then this suggests that you will be good at consulting (and enjoy it)
2. [b]Practice makes perfect:[/b] case interview questions are often based on common sense, but you have very little time to think and respond. Preparing allows you to get the easy things right so that you have less stress and more time to think.
3. [b]Process not intelligence:[/b] Doing well in the case interview is largely about having the right approach, not about being “smart”. There is a particular way to structure the case that will maximise your chances of (1) impressing the interviewer, and (2) providing a solid answer. The only way to learn how to do a case interview is to practice.

I believe a good place to start your study of the case interview is the [url=http://www.tomspencer.com.au/forums/topic/case-interview-workshop]Case Interview Workshop[/url] run by Victor Cheng (former McKinsey consultant).

Also, here is a list of [url=http://www.tomspencer.com.au/2008/07/27/strategy-consulting-and-business-consulting-firms-list-australia/]Strategy and general business consulting firms in Australia[/url].

Hope that helps.

I would be interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this…

My background: currently finishing a PhD in basic science/medicine with 10 years experience as an optometrist. I’ve sort of been thinking for a long time about my next career move, knowing that I don’t want to continue in either of academia or optometry. I’ve always enjoyed analytics coupled with a team environment working towards a sort of greater goal. By chance, I went to see a Bain presentation aimed at PhDs and their pitch was perfect-it really appealed to me. In the past, I was not so sure because I have friends in MC who seem a little burnt out.

Anyway, I have now signed up for their recruitment talk in a week (where they just tell you how to apply and talk about the company a little more)-I was just told by a mate that they expect you to mingle and ask intelligent questions after the talk, and will be closely observing your behaviour.

Anyway, I am thinking of putting in an application, but have been a little put off by some of the things I’m reading about the interview case studies, some people say you need to study, some people say don’t bother. Views on this? Also, which MC firms are more analytics based? Having done some broad reading it seems that I would have little chance with McKinsey because they seem to place an emphasis on leadership (I haven’t been president of any clubs and societies). I am thinking Bain looks good and maybe Boston, what are some of the smaller firms I could apply for? God I am sorry about ALL the questions.

Best,

Michelle

Thanks very much for this comment. It help me to think about my ideals.

Tks again and pls keep posting.

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I haven’t seen Moneyball, but I loved the article!

Here are my favourite quotes:

[quote]Don’t listen too closely to those that have deep industry expertise and are emotionally attached to the status quo — it’s possible that [i]they’re part of the problem[/i].[/quote]

[quote]Playing the old way when you’re at a disadvantage is a sure-fire way to lose.[/quote]

[quote]In the early days, hire athletes. People with raw talent and a propensity to get things done. Don’t be resistent to recruiting people that are early in their careers. You’re looking for arbitrage opportunities.[/quote]

[quote]You can’t maintain two feet firmly planted on the ground and take the leap of faith. [/quote]